tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post1150641408009849653..comments2024-01-12T01:56:21.933-08:00Comments on chokka blog: The Wee Blue Book (of Lies)Kevin Haguehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14587343060415859159noreply@blogger.comBlogger93125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-48948254304002034202016-03-05T04:43:03.521-08:002016-03-05T04:43:03.521-08:00Anonymous - I'm open minded about independence...Anonymous - I'm open minded about independence being the best option for Scotland, but the first thing that would need to change for me is that the economic reality is honestly presented to voters. If those arguing for independence start by so offering such a transparently dishonest economic case I find myself somewhat doubtful of the merits of their caseKevin Haguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14587343060415859159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-42399699389781289282016-03-05T04:38:55.272-08:002016-03-05T04:38:55.272-08:00The Great Ormond Street example was I believe &quo...The Great Ormond Street example was I believe "Vote No Borders" so none of the people you accuse in your list - if it had been the official Better Together Campaign (lead No campaign) it would have been worse. As it was I agree it was poor - but it was very widely reported as inaccurate, including by the BBC who you suggest were complicit (which betrays your irrational paranoia)<br /><br />BBC Report > <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27632803" rel="nofollow">Scottish independence: Vote No Borders advert pulled over child hospital claim</a><br /><br />As for pensions; the claims I'm aware of were accurate as covered in some detail on this blog here<br /><br />Chokka Blog ><a href="http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/wings-wee-blue-book-of-errors-part-ii.html" rel="nofollow">Wee Blue Book: Pensions Claims</a>Kevin Haguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14587343060415859159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-54401531585620844502016-03-04T16:06:38.757-08:002016-03-04T16:06:38.757-08:00Kev talking about lieing Brown, BT and BBC Unionis...Kev talking about lieing Brown, BT and BBC Unionist spokesperson, said that we wouldnt get access to Great Almond St hospital and pensions were not going to be paid if we voted for Independence, both of those were proven lies by both GAS and the Dep of Pensions. Are they ok lies?<br />MJackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-47451899767576640752016-03-04T15:52:56.355-08:002016-03-04T15:52:56.355-08:00Ok thanks for the quick reply to my comment. Think...Ok thanks for the quick reply to my comment. Thinking out of the box, if any or all situations could change my question to you is, what would need to change in order for you to want Scotland to be independent of Westminster and make its own way in the world? Financial? Pride? Security?<br /><br />MJackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-79805012956596382312016-03-04T11:22:39.997-08:002016-03-04T11:22:39.997-08:00@Anonymous
The first mention of colonies betrays ...@Anonymous<br /><br />The first mention of colonies betrays the "stuck-in-the-past" victim complex of the ardent nationalist. Such people need to go away and look at their history and learn that Scotland was every bit as complicit in the British Empire as England. There's a reason it's called the British Empire.<br /><br />"You have to love the way British Nationalists and Unionists always want to make independence all about being better or worse off financially and not about self determination and not wanting to be out voted by your bigger neighbour on issues important to Scotland." - And you also have to love the way the nationalists always want to make independence about sentiment and grievance instead of reason and hard fact. It just shows that they have no argument and prefer to resort to evangelical "it'll be all right on the night" optimism, or hypocritical "Westminster is out to get your kids"-style doom-mongering.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01329280919041952141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-23614064818315061492016-03-04T10:52:23.700-08:002016-03-04T10:52:23.700-08:00Dude - this blog post is a direct response to Nat ...Dude - this blog post is a direct response to Nat propaganda suggesting (clearly wrongly) that we'd be better off. That's what I'm taking issue with - I don't think that being immediately financially worse off is in and of itself a reason not to be Indy, but I think if you lie to the electorate about that reality (as Wings and the SNP and the wider Yes campaign did) the you should be called out on it - that's what I'm doingKevin Haguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14587343060415859159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-10577753307356258232016-03-04T10:38:36.437-08:002016-03-04T10:38:36.437-08:00You have to love the way British Nationalists and ...You have to love the way British Nationalists and Unionists always want to make independence all about being better or worse off financially and not about self determination and not wanting to be out voted by your bigger neighbour on issues important to Scotland. If Russia or France said they would give Scotland a better deal than Westminster would you take that cause its better financially?<br /><br />Try asking ex-colony countries if they would prefer to be run by Westminster and the House of lords than run themselves even if you offered them some financial insentive. Try New Zealand first make sure you have an ice-pack for the black eye then go on to all the other countries, perhaps it could be a youtube hit where you go to each ex-British colony country and ask for them to renounce independence and come back to the mother of parliaments and submit to Westminster rule. <br /><br />Might need to invent an "alien act" to encourage them though. <br /><br />No Google account so Anonymous MJackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-53982372460699459332016-02-29T06:02:28.075-08:002016-02-29T06:02:28.075-08:00Thank you for explaining where your figures come f...<br />Thank you for explaining where your figures come from. That's all I ever wanted!<br /><br />I'll leave it up to the reader to decide whether I "should" have been able to work it out for myself. Bearing in mind that this article is essentially about how the devil is in the detail of the specific combination of raw data from the same source.<br />Hamishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04699254777912702472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-69434431264207953322016-02-29T05:33:05.788-08:002016-02-29T05:33:05.788-08:00Hamish
"I've looked at the equivalent do...Hamish<br /><br />"I've looked at the equivalent documents from previous years, and found nothing to support Hague's figures"?<br /><br />That's pretty insulting to be honest - and I hope you can now see completely unjustifiedKevin Haguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14587343060415859159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-50217184575731959872016-02-29T05:29:16.034-08:002016-02-29T05:29:16.034-08:00Blimey - Hamish the spreadsheet is mine, simple ar...Blimey - Hamish the spreadsheet is mine, simple arithmetic manipulation of the raw GERS data that I've linked you to - you suggest I'm not telling you where the data comes from when I repeatedly do - it's from the GERS data tables I've provided links to several times.<br /><br />Might I suggest you try and work the figure for yourself from that data source and see if you get a different answer? If you have gone to that bother I think it's reasonable to say to me "I get x why do you get Y" - but in fcat you clearly have not even attempted the most basic maths before saying I've "yet to provide" the data.<br /><br />To take you example £10,998 for 2012-13 ...<br /><br />use the 12-13 GERS data tables (the ones that were available then, linked in my previous comment) and look at table 5.2 and you'll see the absolute figure of £701,681 for 12-13 total UK current + capital spend.<br /><br />To get per capita we need to divide by UK population. <br /><br />Table 3.4 gives a revenue/capita of £9,200 and table 3.3 gives total revenue of £586,925k => implicit population of 63,796k<br /><br />so £701,681/63,796 = £10,999<br /><br />Of course there are more recent numbers available which I now use ... but I hope you can now see that "Hague's numbers" audit-trail through GERS.<br /><br />Genuinely: you should have worked that out for yourself given I provided the data source used.Kevin Haguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14587343060415859159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-52282556031428518152016-02-29T04:12:26.858-08:002016-02-29T04:12:26.858-08:00I really have no idea what you're talking abou...I really have no idea what you're talking about. All I have done is asked you for the source of the figures in your table. I haven't suggested that "the c.90% geographic share is too low" or that "the definition of geographic share is a material issue", or any such thing. I am no fan of Stuart Campbell and it would not surprise me at all if he were attempting to mislead. All I am doing is asking you for the source of the facts by which you demonstrate this.<br /><br />Table C.4 in the spreadsheet you linked to contains the "Revisions to geographic share of North Sea Revenue 2009-10 and 2012-13". All the figures in that table are percentages. What I'm asking you for is the source of the absolute numbers in the table you posted at the bottom of the article. AFAICT, the spreadsheet you've linked to does not contain those figures.<br /><br />For instance, you have in your table under Public Expenditure for the UK in 2012-13 a Per Capita figure of "10,998". The only instance of a figure "10,998" in the spreadsheet you linked me to is an accounting adjustment from 2004-05. So where (for example) does the "10,998" in your table come from?Hamishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04699254777912702472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-75357331322505927962016-02-29T03:35:52.609-08:002016-02-29T03:35:52.609-08:00Hamish, you really are remarkably obtuse about thi...Hamish, you really are remarkably obtuse about this. "Hague's figures" come straight from GERS as published each year, as sourced throughout my blog.<br /><br />I'm stunned you are unable to find and follow this link<br /><br />http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS/GERS2015xls<br /><br />and get you way to Table c.4<br /><br />It was in previous years as well of course; also easy to find<br /><br />http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS/GERS2014xls<br /><br />Do I take it from your continued bizarre questioning of this that<br /><br />a/ you haven't read GERS<br /><br />b/ and/or you think that the c.90% geographic share is too low (despite it being the Scottish Government's figure <br /><br />c/ and/or you think the definition of geographic share is a material issue in this debate<br /><br />Whichever of these issues you are worried about, you are swinging and missing very badlyKevin Haguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14587343060415859159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-55518486445829840792016-02-29T03:21:22.820-08:002016-02-29T03:21:22.820-08:00Anonymous @ 22 Feb 2016,
That document is from Oc...Anonymous @ 22 Feb 2016,<br /><br />That document is from October 2015, more than a year after Hague posted this article.<br /><br />I've looked at the equivalent documents from previous years, and found nothing to support Hague's figures. If you can link directly to a document containing Hague's figures, please go ahead.Hamishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04699254777912702472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-59683229626793905532016-02-22T09:11:04.365-08:002016-02-22T09:11:04.365-08:00Hamish @ 1st Feb 2016,
https://www.gov.uk/governm...Hamish @ 1st Feb 2016,<br /><br />https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/464199/HMRC_disaggregated_receipts_-_Methodology_Note.pdf<br /><br />Google, 40 seconds.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-25477588154689318932016-02-01T14:48:39.243-08:002016-02-01T14:48:39.243-08:00Facts are all well and good, but let's not get...Facts are all well and good, but let's not get ahead of ourselves: I've asked Hague twice for the source of the data behind the "Geographic Split of Oil Revenue", and he has yet to provide it.Hamishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04699254777912702472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-84805574688009789992016-02-01T13:25:28.811-08:002016-02-01T13:25:28.811-08:00"I can't believe how little you believe i..."I can't believe how little you believe in your country. I don't even live there and I know exactly what's going on. You'd rather try to degrade someone instead of sticking to sheer facts. Can you even *see* why half of Scotland is done with it all? Is there any flicker in your mind or heart that understands how great Independence can be? No one ever said getting there would be perfect and easy. But at least they WANT it."<br /><br />Anon, you've highlighted the difference between Hague and people like you. Hague deals in facts, whereas you deal in sentiment over substance.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01329280919041952141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-81187391415485153922015-11-19T12:37:21.750-08:002015-11-19T12:37:21.750-08:00I can't believe how little you believe in your...I can't believe how little you believe in your country. I don't even live there and I know exactly what's going on. You'd rather try to degrade someone instead of sticking to sheer facts. Can you even *see* why half of Scotland is done with it all? Is there any flicker in your mind or heart that understands how great Independence can be? No one ever said getting there would be perfect and easy. But at least they WANT it.<br /><br />So disappointed, Kevin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-9361539458817769032015-11-11T00:15:02.079-08:002015-11-11T00:15:02.079-08:00You don't have to live in a country to want it...You don't have to live in a country to want it to be better. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-57341764532870597102015-09-16T04:27:01.363-07:002015-09-16T04:27:01.363-07:00It surely has to be worth considering just how muc...<br />It surely has to be worth considering just how much contribution "Wings" made to the campaign and to the GE result with its misappropiated lies and false data.<br /><br />A rumoured 200,000 to 600,000 Copies of the Wee Blue Book were said to be in ciculation so perhaps convinced 200,000 individuals to Vote yes or 800,000 voters in a family of 4 of voting age ? In an electorate the size of Scotlands thats a mass manipulation of a nation on the back of falsification of facts.<br /><br />With the Anniversary almost on us its worth reflecting just how bad things would have been http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002120.html <br /><br />and yet the people who can't work out the facts for themselves still go to "Wings" for the "Truth" in the apparent absence of anywhere else to do so (aprt from this Blog) this is sdaly some thing very much lacking in Scottish Politics that allows the SNP itself and Wings to produce as much dross and spin as they like.<br />We really need a single Website presence with the "real " truth without spin from other side to inform people openly and honestly..is that something Scots take pride in anymore ?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-6120564298259298802015-04-21T08:10:02.338-07:002015-04-21T08:10:02.338-07:00Thank goodness! A site written by someone who is s...Thank goodness! A site written by someone who is sensible and backs up his points with detailed statistics.<br /><br />I have briefly looked at his (Stuart's) 'Wings over Scotland' website and it is awful, full of nationalist assertions and misinterpretation. <br /><br />Chokka blog, I am glad for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-62142238074569057342015-03-04T16:41:51.723-08:002015-03-04T16:41:51.723-08:00"Currency union? Try handing over a Scottish ..."Currency union? Try handing over a Scottish tenner in a shop down south now. You might as well hand over Syrian money."<br /><br />I spend Scottish money in English shops whenever I'm down there on holiday and no one bats an eyelid.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01329280919041952141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-60206490397980715132014-09-18T02:46:33.052-07:002014-09-18T02:46:33.052-07:00Scotland was not bankrupt, in fact Scotland had no...Scotland was not bankrupt, in fact Scotland had no national debt at the time of the union. "The equivalent", which is the money England paid to persuade Scottish nobles to join in a Union was to compensate Scotland for taking on a share of England's national debt.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-15826495300021316192014-09-16T02:01:23.243-07:002014-09-16T02:01:23.243-07:00I still can't find the table headed "Geog...I still can't find the table headed "Geographic Split of Oil Revenue" from your article. Could you please link directly to it?Hamishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04699254777912702472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-45487065118934801152014-09-15T06:39:49.955-07:002014-09-15T06:39:49.955-07:00To Anonymous on forecast "miss" by Scot ...To Anonymous on forecast "miss" by Scot Gov - sorry not got time to do this neatly but I see I used this as source for actual ><br /><br /><a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/323371/140620_UK_oil_and_gas_tables_for_publication_in_June_2014.pdf" rel="nofollow">Actuals</a><br /><br />And Scot Gov scenarios I'm pretty sure from White Paper itself else afraid you'll need to google<br /><br />From memory £4.7bn actual vs £6.2bn lower case forecast?<br /><br />Kevin Haguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14587343060415859159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1603438996450817644.post-60126953717363820462014-09-15T03:29:40.256-07:002014-09-15T03:29:40.256-07:00Hi, could you please link me to the source showing...Hi, could you please link me to the source showing that the Scottish Governments worst case oil prediction was 25% over optimistic in 2013-14. I'm trying to make sure I have original sources of this kind of stuff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com